Episode 153: Transcript

Episode: 153: Summer Entertainment Guide: What to Watch and Read this Summer!

Transcription by Keffy

Charlie Jane: [00:00:01] Annalee, are you excited to find out who the next James Bond is going to be? 

Annalee: [00:00:06] I actually am. I really want to know. Like, I feel like I've been teased with, like, a million possibilities. What's going on? 

Charlie Jane: [00:00:13] Yeah, I feel like it's been going on and on. Like, any day now, white smoke is going to come out of a giant gun barrel and the new James Bond actor will come flying up through the smoke in a souped-up Aston Martin with rocket tires and rocket seats and rocket steering. He'll steer using a giant rocket instead of a steering wheel. It'll be super exciting. 

[00:00:34] It's just weird that, like, Daniel Craig finished being James Bond. And since then, we've gotten two new Doctor Who's. And we're still waiting for our replacement James Bond. 

Annalee: [00:00:44] You know, I think, like a lot of people, my head canon is basically that James Bond turned into the detective that Daniel Craig plays in the Knives Out movies. 

Charlie Jane: [00:00:56] Oh, yeah. 

Annalee: [00:00:57] So I think... 

Charlie Jane: [00:00:57] He's moonlighting. 

Annalee: [00:00:59] I don't even think he's moonlighting. I think he's just, like, literally transformed. 

Charlie Jane: [00:01:02] That's James Bond's real accent. 

Annalee: [00:01:04] Exactly. First of all, yes. 

Charlie Jane: [00:01:06] James Bond does a fake English accent, but has a real South-Southern American accent. 

Annalee: [00:01:11] Absolutely. And also, like, come on, we live in a multiverse, you know? 

Charlie Jane: [00:01:15] Yes. 

Annalee: [00:01:16] We've just hopped over into the universe where James Bond does not exist, but Knives Out does. And so... 

Charlie Jane: [00:01:25] Benoit Blanc. 

Annalee: [00:01:26] Yes. And so I'm in favor of that. The other possibility, obviously, is that it's going to turn out that the new James Bond is a cyborg cat. 

Charlie Jane: [00:01:36] I mean, that would be canonical. That would have a lot of precedents in canon. 

Annalee: [00:01:41] Yeah, again, we're in the multiverse. So I feel like I'm just throwing things out there. And this is my hope. 

Charlie Jane: [00:01:47] I feel like James Bond could be a cyborg cat next time. I think James Bond could be anyone. Personally, I think that Dame Judi Dench should be the next James Bond because she deserves it after all those movies where she just had to sit around scowling at Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig. Judi Dench has been working out. She’s fit, she’s rested, she’s ready to go. Give her a chance. Let her be James Bond for a change.

Annalee: [00:02:07] Oh, my God. I would love that. I think all the time about that scene in one of the Daniel Craig movies where she's delivering some incredibly dark speech and she's putting cold cream on her face. And I have never seen putting on cold cream look so menacing. I mean, yeah, put a gun in her hand. And like throw her out there. Yeah, I'm ready. 

Charlie Jane: [00:02:34] I honestly feel like she was kind of the glue that held a lot of those movies together. But anyway, so today we're going to be talking about summer entertainment and all the movies and TV shows and books that were excited for this summer, which sadly don't include a new James Bond movie. What the hell? And later in the episode, we'll be talking about Hollywood's doldrums and the fact that the writers and actor strikes, you know, they came to an end. The strikes came to an end, but we haven't seen Hollywood going back to work the way everybody hoped it would.

[00:03:00] So you're listening to Our Opinions Are Correct. I'm Charlie Jane Anders, author most recently of Promises Stronger Than Darkness. 

Annalee: [00:03:08] And I'm Annalee Newitz. I have a book coming out in June called Stories Are Weapons: Psychological Warfare and the American Mind. 

Charlie Jane: [00:03:17] Yeah. And so our mini episode next week for our Patreon supporters, we'll be talking about the movie Love Lies Bleeding and the new wave of queer pulp fiction movies that are coming down the pike. 

Annalee: [00:03:28] And did you know that this podcast is entirely independent and funded by you, our wonderful listeners through Patreon? That's right. If you become a patron, you are making this podcast happen. You're helping to pay for us to have great ideas. You're helping to pay for our amazing producer, Naya Harmon to also have great ideas. Plus you get audio extras with every episode and you get access to our Discord channel where we hang out and talk about all kinds of weird stuff. And I personally post a lot of pictures of my cats, which I think is really important. So think about it. All that could be yours for just a few bucks a month. Everything you give us goes right back into making really, really correct opinions. 

[00:04:07] So find us at patreon.com/ouropinionsarecorrect 

Charlie Jane: [00:04:11] All right. Let's get summery.

[00:04:15] [OOAC theme plays. Science fictiony synth noises over an energetic, jazzy drum line.]

Annalee: [00:04:46] So when we did our summer entertainment guide last year, you said we had this packed summer. There were all these big tent poles for the first time since the pandemic. It felt like everything was like returning to Hollywood normal. So how's that going this year? 

Charlie Jane: [00:05:03] Not great. Actually, this is this is kind of a weak summer. It's like the weakest summer we've probably had since 2020, in fact.

[00:05:10] I've been listening to this box office podcast that I really enjoy called The Outside Scoop. And they're kind of freaking out about how weak this summer is looking for movies. And it's partly due to the strikes that happened last year delaying a bunch of stuff, but partly some other factors like Hollywood kind of getting cold feet in general. 

[00:05:27] There's only one big superhero movie this summer, which admittedly looks really fun. It's Deadpool and Wolverine. And there're only a handful of other big movies this summer. The good news is that some really weird obscure shit might get a little more attention as a result. 

Annalee: [00:05:42] Yeah, that is kind of a bummer, but also it is kind of cool that maybe some more obscure stuff will come out. So what are you most excited about this summer? What's the movie that's really on your mind? 

Charlie Jane: [00:05:54] You know, nobody's talking about this movie. It's kind of weird, but I'm actually really fascinated by Borderlands. It's another video game adaptation. And listeners to this podcast will know that we talked recently about how video game movies are kind of taking over from superhero movies, which continues to feel like a real huge trend. And the movie version, it's directed by Eli Roth, which is like always exciting. What the hell? I don't know. You know, I always have time for that guy. He's always doing some weird shit. And it looks like a rip-off of Guardians of the Galaxy, which I'm actually here for that. I'm like, yes, let's just have way more Guardians of the Galaxy rip-offs. And it's got Cate Blanchett and it's got Jack Black as a pooping robot. And, you know, I don't know what you think about the game. I've seen very little coverage of the movie, actually, but the trailer just looks really fun.

Borderlands Trailer: [00:06:41] Legend has it that there's this massive treasure hidden in some secret vault. And if you go hunting for it, you'd better take any help you can get. 

Annalee: [00:06:52] It does look really fun. Like you, I also immediately got Guardians of the Galaxy vibes. It's also got a little bit of Fifth Element kind of thrown in there, too, with all the wacky costumes and like weird anime style wigs. And I think the thing that worried me about it was that it felt a little bit like it didn't have the joy of Guardians of the Galaxy. It felt a little bit like they were like, oh, paint by number. We need a, you know, a smart-ass robot. We need a guy who doesn't really look like a hominin. We need like somebody with a cool wig who like shit talks once in a while. And then like, you know, we need like some weird space guns and like a smart-ass teenager. 

[00:07:36] I mean, I'm going to definitely see it. It has like a nice heist feeling to it. It has a little bit of like Fast and the Furious on another planet kind of vibe. Also, I noticed that there are a lot of vehicles in the trailer that look like Cybertrucks. And I'm a little concerned about this trend in our science fiction aesthetics. Like this, this worries me a lot. 

Charlie Jane: [00:08:00] I mean, they probably filmed it before the Cybertruck was even a thing. I mean, the Cybertruck is really ripping off a bunch of old sci-fi. 

Annalee: [00:08:06] It is. 

Charlie Jane: [00:08:07] It's just, I don't know. I mean, I will say that the trailer looks a little bit cynical. It has a cynical feeling to it, but it looks like a movie that's just all its only aspiration is to be fun. It has no aspiration to like do anything, but just give you a fun ride. I'm kind of up for that. I feel like we need more movies that are just like unambitious fun with like spaceships. And honestly, Cate Blanchett goes a long way for me. If Cate Blanchett shows up, I'm probably there just for her. 

[00:08:35] So speaking of gonzo action movies that star badass ladies, another movie that comes out this summer is Furiosa, which is a prequel to Mad Max: Fury Road starring Anya Taylor Joy as a younger version of the character originally played by Charlize Theron. And I have such mixed feelings about this movie. 

[00:08:53] Like I really strongly prefer to just see Charlize Theron keep playing this character that she made so epic and to get further adventures of like the grown up older Furiosa rather than a prequel about how she was traumatized as a young woman. But at the same time, I loved Fury Road. The trailer looks super fun, and it does have that, you know, Mad Max feel to it. 

[00:09:21] And you know, the thing that gives me hope for this movie is actually Chris Hemsworth, who always is up for a good time. And he's just chewing every piece of cedar he can get his hands on as the villain, Dr. Dementus. 

Annalee: [00:09:32] Yeah, like you, I feel like it would have been a better move for this series to go into the future. So to continue the story of Fury Road and show Charlize Theron kicking butt, trying to rebuild this feminist colony that she was a part of as a kid, that would have been really interesting. And there could have easily been like tons more, you know, car fights and stuff, you know, you don't need to sacrifice those when you're building feminist utopia. 

[00:10:03] But, you know, since this is what we've got, I also feel really ambivalently about it. And I especially hate the casting of Anya Taylor Joy. I feel like we are in this Anya Taylor Joyification moment where she's in literally everything. And like... 

Charlie Jane: [00:10:21] She's like the young Olivia Colburn. 

Annalee: [00:10:23] I'm like, please stop, please stop. Because here's the thing is no shade on her. Like, I actually think she's really great in a lot of roles. I just don't think she has the right vibe to be Furiosa. I want someone who's like tough and nervy. And I was like, make it someone like Florence Pugh, who just fucking looks angry, but also is vulnerable or like someone who has like an Olivia Rodrigo vibe of like vulnerable, but then suddenly like eating your face off with anger. 

[00:10:57] So someone could have thought a little more carefully about casting here and like even casting an unknown, you know, would have been better, I think, than like, you know, anime eyes girl Anya Taylor Joy. I just she's just the wrong person for this movie.

Charlie Jane: [00:11:13] Yeah, I kind of I mean, I feel like often casting an unknown is the right play for these kinds of things. And then you surround them with like known actors. Now I really want like Olivia Rodrigo starring in a gritty action franchise. I mean, you and I watched all of High School Musical: The Musical: The Series where she's just like the MVP where she's still in it. And you know, I would I would watch the heck out of that. 

Annalee: [00:11:33] I would like to see her in a John Wick spinoff musical. 

Charlie Jane: [00:11:38] Oh, John Wick musical - that actually makes so much sense. I feel like it should already exist. 

[00:11:45] All right, Annalee, as our podcast resident, Crow-ologist, I have to ask you something. So back when you and I were doing I-09, I feel like every other month we would do an article about how they're going to remake The Crow. They're going to remake The Crow. 

[00:11:59] The Crow, by the way, is like this iconic Brandon Lee movie from like the 90s. The dude who dies and comes back as like an avenging goth or something. And so it's finally here. They've remade The Crow. It's coming back this summer starring Bill Skarsgard. And you know, what do you what do we think about that? 

Annalee: [00:12:18] OK, first of all, who knew there was another Skarsgard? I didn't. Now I do. So that's...

Charlie Jane: [00:12:25] There’s always another Skarsgard. 

Annalee: [00:12:26] I kind of I kind of ended up doing perhaps an ill-advised deep dive on this because I watched the trailer and was just so repulsed and disturbed that I was like, wait, I have to go back and rewatch bits of the original Crow because like I was like, it can't be that this is that this is what the original Crow was like, which obviously it wasn't. 

[00:12:49] You know, first of all, Bill Skarsgard is terrible. He's not at all anything like Brandon Lee, who were you know, they're obviously trying to kind of channel in this film. And I mean, Brandon Lee was part of what made the original Crow such an iconic film. Like he has this incredible presence. He also has the pedigree. You know, he has kind of the you know, the vibe of his late father. And then, of course, his tragic death made the movie even more iconic because it felt like, you know, real life and the movie were kind of bleeding into each other. 

[00:13:24] But also the thing about The Crow was that it had this really unique style. Like it was a graceful, beautiful, gothy gun film, which, of course, there's been a million, you know, kind of balletic gun movies, especially at that point, like there were John Woo movies that had these beautiful gun action sequences that definitely were being ripped off by this film. 

Charlie Jane: [00:13:50] Yeah. 

Annalee: [00:13:51] But bringing it together with that kind of, you know, 1980s Batman vibe of like sad goth, you know, so sad goth gun ballet was a new thing. And I think that the real inheritors of The Crow are not the many weird sequels, which, by the way, I haven't I didn't even realize there were all of these sequels to the film. 

[00:14:16] The real inheritor is John Wick. And I think that John Wick and now Monkey Man, which is another fantastic film in kind of that genre of like, again, I want to call it like gun ballet, social justice genre. You know, we have those films and they feel original and fresh still. And I don't want a reboot of The Crow with a white guy being like, you know, vengeance dude with tattoos. Like, it just feels incredibly warmed over, really cynical and just really like I can't tell you how disappointing, like it doesn't... 

[00:14:52] The thing that was great about The Crow was it was it felt new. It felt like it was breaking new ground and hybridizing genres that hadn't been hybridized like that before. So I don't like it. I guess this is my long way of saying, like, no, I don't like it. I don't want it. I didn't ask for it. What is even happening here? Go see Monkey Man. 

Charlie Jane: [00:15:18] I mean, definitely Monkey beats Crow for sure. In this case, I feel like I feel like, you know, this is what you're saying to me really kind of strikes this chord because I feel like this is the thing of Hollywood remakes and also often sequels and whatever reboots where something that was just like lightning struck at the right time, like when they remade Total Recall and when they remade Robocop, it was the same kind of feeling of like, this movie was exactly the right thing at the right time. It was a whole bunch of circumstances that came together to make this one movie. 

[00:15:49] Ghostbusters, I would say almost the same thing about actually. I feel like there are certain things that just they were the right thing at the right time. The right people were involved. It's not the IP. The IP is worthless. 

Annalee: [00:15:59] I think that's really well observed that certain movies are of their time and we should leave them in their time. I also want to make another important point, which is that in the trailer for The Crow second Cybertruck-esque sighting of the summer. Okay, I'm just saying it's the summer of the Cybertruck in bad sci-fi. So make of that what you will. 

Charlie Jane: [00:16:21] So what you're saying is that the Mad Max movie doesn't have any Cybertruck looking vehicles. So we're pulling for that now. 

Annalee: [00:16:26] Yeah. 

Charlie Jane: [00:16:27] And finally, speaking of sequels, another movie that I'm actually excited for this summer is Inside Out 2, which is a sequel to one of my favorite animated films of all time. I have like a t-shirt of Bing Bong, the clown character from the first Inside Out. And you know, whenever I wear it, I get such strong reactions from people. 

[00:16:45] I'm very nervous about this just because inside the first Inside Out was so important to me. And I really hope that they make a sequel that's worthy of continuing that legacy. So, you know, fingers crossed. 

Annalee: [00:16:56] Yeah, I'm excited about it too. And yeah, a little trepidatious, but like I trust the filmmakers to give us something intriguing. 

[00:17:03] So let's talk about television. 

Charlie Jane: [00:17:05] Yes. Okay. So by the time you're listening to this, we're actually recording this in early May. But by the time you listen to this, summer television has already started to air. And you know, Doctor Who is back. I'm jealous of future me who's already seen a bunch of the episodes. Also, by the time you hear this episode, Interview With a Vampire Season Two will be in full swing. 

[00:17:25] And it's interesting to think about the fact that, you know, Doctor Who and Interview With a Vampire in very different ways are these two iconic franchises where in the past, they've mostly, you know, at least on screen, been led by like straight white guys, you know, Brad Pitt and a whole bunch of dudes playing to the Doctor or Doctor Who. And now they're both starring queer black men, or at least they're featuring black men who are queer on screen. And I feel like they both are getting a new lease on life as a result. 

Annalee: [00:17:55] Yeah, I also really love that. And I mean, I'm excited about both. As you know, I've been teaching a media studies course at University of San Francisco this past semester, and I kept talking about Doctor Who and Ncuti Gatwa and just like randomly putting pictures of him into my slide deck just for no reason and wearing Doctor Who t-shirts. 

[00:18:16] I had approximately one student who actually cared and was excited, but I think I might have gotten a few more of them excited. So this is just to say a tiny number of media studies students are also now very, very aware of the new Doctor. And I think that this is part of the general sense that both of us have that television is really what's exciting right now and that, you know, beyond just this summer, I feel like all of the titles that I'm really looking forward to are television and not necessarily film. 

Charlie Jane: [00:18:52] Yeah, I mean, it really is true. This is an especially weak movie summer, and there was some really great television coming down the pike. And Ncuti Gatwa is just such a blessing. Like he's like every time I see a clip from the new season, he has just his energy, his joy. He's like he's so alive and he's so excited to be doing this. And he feels like he's single handedly bringing kind of life back to Doctor Who and making Doctor Who feel like one of the most important, you know, TV shows, which it always should be. 

Annalee: [00:19:21] Also, he gets to wear different outfits, which I know is such a silly observation, but it's exciting. 

Charlie Jane: [00:19:29] It is exciting. 

Annalee: [00:19:30] He doesn't just have to wear like the one Doctor outfit, which generally I always love the doctor outfits. Frankly, I dress as much like the Doctor as I can, but especially like the David Tennant era Doctor. But I like that now the Doctor is being allowed to have... I would say that this is part of the Doctor having like more of a three-dimensional identity in a lot of ways that like that's being reflected in the fact that his wardrobe doesn't have to be just this kind of uniform. 

Charlie Jane: [00:19:58] Yeah, I mean, you know, I've complicated thoughts about it, obviously, like some of the past Doctors had like outfits that they would... kind of like David Tennant would wear a suit, but sometimes it was a brown suit. Sometimes it was a blue suit. He would wear different versions of the suit.

Annalee: [00:20:13] Different jackets, different or different overcoats and stuff like that. Yeah.

Charlie Jane: [00:20:16] Tom Baker and John Pertwee kind of similarly would have like variations on the same outfit. But yeah, I think it doesn't really work when the Doctor has a uniform. I feel like it's just weird, like in the 80s, especially. But anyway, moving on. 

[00:20:28] Yeah, and I can't overstate how excited I am for Interview With a Vampire. I honestly am not an Anne Rice superfan, but that show has completely like taken over my brain and I really love it. 

Annalee: [00:20:38] Yeah. And if you want to hear more about Anne Rice, you can listen to our episode about Anne Rice that we did. So, OK, what's another TV show you're excited about this summer? 

Charlie Jane: [00:20:48] OK, so I am super pumped for the return of We Are Lady Parts on the 30th on Peacock, which, you know, in the new season, basically the band is getting more successful. It's about this punk band of Muslim women in the UK. And in the second season, they're starting to have some success. They've been touring. They're getting some fans. And now two things are happening judging from the trailer. 

[00:21:12] One, they are getting ready to record their first album, which means there's going to be studio shenanigans. But also, two, there's a rival band that's like stealing some of their material and like it's another band of Muslim women. And like so now they have to like decide if they're going to be friends with this other band or if they're going to be rivals. It's a whole thing. 

Annalee: [00:21:33] I love it. I this is not a show that is speculative fiction at all, but it still feels like it's taking place in an alternate universe of like happy feminists just like screaming their hearts out and not getting death threats every day. So I love that. I love living in that world. 

[00:21:50] All right. So tell me what you're thinking about this new Star Wars show, The Acolyte, which I know almost nothing about. 

Charlie Jane: [00:21:59] I've been excited for The Acolyte for literally years. And I'm like, I can't believe it's almost here. I'm actually super pumped. This is the Star Wars show written and, you know, show run by Leslie Headland: who co-wrote season one of Russian Doll. 

Annalee: [00:22:15] Oh, cool. 

Charlie Jane: [00:22:15] So I'm hoping, I'm really hoping that she's able to basically do what the producers of Andor were able to do, which is really take things in a different direction and put their own stamp on it. 

[00:22:26] It's set like a hundred years before any of the Star Wars movies. It's about a time when the Jedi are kind of at their peak of their power and someone is murdering Jedi and there's like a murder investigation. And it's kind of about the kind of cracks and the corruption and everything that led to the Jedi eventually falling, which I'm cautiously optimistic. 

[00:22:47] You know, the trailer looks fun, but I'm I feel like we're going to have to wait and see. I'm hoping that they're able to really do something exciting and new with Star Wars. 

Annalee: [00:22:57] Yeah, the thing that really appeals to me about this is the idea of looking at, well, for lack of a better term, the dark side of the Jedi. Because, I think that, you know, the Jedi are this really ambiguous organization and we, you know, they're basically a religious order. It kind of seems like at some points they're doing eugenics projects to breed better midochlorian people. 

Charlie Jane: [00:23:29] Oh, right. I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah. 

Annalee: [00:23:31] Yeah. I don't know that they're actually, it's not like a Dune type situation where they're actually trying to like, you know what I mean? Breed the Kwisatz Haderach, or whatever. But like they feel like they are in some ways the Catholic Church of like medieval England or something, because remember, this is this is a world full of monarchies. There's a few... 

Charlie Jane: [00:23:54] No, there’s the Republic, Annalee. There's the Republic. It's all. 

Annalee: [00:23:58] Yeah, yeah, right. And there is a Senate and it's like, yeah, OK, so if it's ancient Rome, again, it's like mostly dictatorships and these kind of like nation states that aren't really democratic. And so or like we have an elected monarch or whatever. I don't. What is that? 

[00:24:14] So I would love something like you said, like Andor, that's taking a critical look at some of these like beloved institutions that obviously have great, wonderful people working for them like Yoda, but also they're a little bit sus, like they're kind of the shadowy power behind the throne. They also have all these - they're weaponized, they're weaponized super beings. And so they're using like all of their force powers to like prop up certain rulers and depose others. So yeah, this is a long winded way of saying I'm excited. Hopefully we'll get to see this other side of the Jedi. Like I want to know about the Jedi bureaucracy. So give it to me now. 

Charlie Jane: [00:24:55] Yeah, I mean, I'm excited. I do have some preparation because I feel like the Jedi are one of those things where the more you see of them, the less interesting they get or the less cool they get. But I trust in Leslie Headland. If she can make it work, I think it could be great. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[00:25:12] So just to wrap up summer TV, there's a bunch of stuff coming this summer where it feels like franchises that have kind of they've had their time. And now we're getting more of them, even though they've already kind of had their time. There's the Game of Thrones spin off House of the Dragon. There's a new Orphan Black show, Orphan Black: Echoes, which, you know, it does start Christian Ritter, who I always love. But, you know, still more Orphan Black. And then there's the final season of The Umbrella Academy. And, you know, it just feels like we already had a lot of these franchises. I don't know if we need more of them, but, you know, we're going to get more of them. 

Annalee: [00:25:46] It's fine. It's all fine. I'm glad The Umbrella Academy is going to get like a final season to wrap everything up. I have really enjoyed that show a lot. It's uneven, but it's had moments that were just really fantastic. So I'm cool with that. I agree with you. I have like completely peaced out of Orphan Black and House of the Dragon. I don't need more of that. But yeah, hopefully we'll get some new TV, actually, not just franchise spinoffs in the fall. All right. Let's turn to books. 

Charlie Jane: [00:26:14] Yeah. Annalee, what's an upcoming book that you recommend? 

Annalee: [00:26:18] So as you know, Charlie Jane, I have been screaming a lot about Victor Manibo's new novel: Escape Velocity. I got to look at an advanced copy of it and I blurbed it. His latest book, I would describe it as a thriller. It's kind of Knives Out in space. And it's about a bunch of rich people who are celebrating the opening of this luxury space station where all of the wealthiest people of Earth who are like multi-billionaires can kind of go and basically abuse the Filipino staff in this big space vessel.

[00:26:58] It's kind of a parody of the billionaire life in general, but specifically the way that billionaires these days focus on space. And there's a subplot about colonizing Mars, which is really interesting. But overall, it's just it's a very satirical, nasty, campy, funny, but also really pointed story about how the wealthy abuse their power. And one of the things I love about it is that you get really emotionally engaged with the characters. Even though they're like evil, you kind of start to care about them in a kind of Beverly Hills, 90210 way. 

Charlie Jane: [00:27:36] Yeah. 

Annalee: [00:27:37] The other book I'm really excited about is Andrea Hairston's new book, Archangels of Funk, which is all about putting on a really awesome play - or really a variety show - in a post-apocalyptic world where a small group of artists and AI developers and free robots and uplifted animals have all come together to create a tiny little utopian town in the midst of devastation. It's just it's really delightful. 

Charlie Jane: [00:28:06] Yeah. Also, my review of Escape Velocity by Victor Manibo will probably be out by the time you listen to this. And I really enjoyed it as well. It's very dark and very kind of fascinating. 

[00:28:18] Yeah. So one book that I'm really excited about, which I haven't gotten to read yet, is Yoke of Stars by R.B. Lemberg. It's set in their Birdverse series, this sort of setting of a bunch of their novels. And I've just been blown away by everything I've read of theirs, especially all the Birdverse stuff. And this one is about someone who's studying in the School of Assassins and they're waiting for their first assignment. to kill somebody. And once they've managed to kill somebody, they'll get to graduate and become like a super assassin. But instead, they get, you know, assigned to work with a linguist. It's about the relationship between this wannabe assassin and this linguist. And basically, they kind of tell stories to each other. And it's like, I feel like one of the things I love about R.B. Lemberg is that they always take scenarios that could go in a really predictable kind of action movie direction and instead take it in this sort of contemplative, thoughtful direction that's not what you would have expected. 

Annalee: [00:29:15] Yeah, I also just really appreciate how... I don't know, I feel like Lemberg's work is really philosophical and profound. Like I always come away from one of their stories or books feeling like I understand myself better and not because I feel like the books are aimed at me specifically, but just because they just have really great insights into how human brains work and our psychology. 

[00:29:39] So on the assassin tip, another book I think many people are excited about is P. Jelly Clark's forthcoming book, The Dead Cat Tail Assassins, which as it says on the tin, it's about assassins and in a magical city. And it's going to be like badass women, you know, on a quest for social justice, but also a mystery. So I mean, it can't get here soon enough. I am so excited about this book. 

Charlie Jane: [00:30:06] Yeah. One book I'm super curious about is The Book of Elsewhere by Keanu Reeves and China Mieville, which that's just such an interesting combination of like one of our most beloved actors and one of our like gnarliest, most, you know, fascinating authors kind of teaming up to write a book that I guess is a tie-in with a comic book series. And it's about an ancient warrior who can't die. Who's like, I guess he's been around for hundreds of years and he's only known as B. And then like somebody else dies and comes back to life. And so now there's two people who can't die. And it’s like this mystical stuff is happening. 

[00:30:44] Actually, there's not a lot known about this book. I've asked for a review copy and we'll see when I get it. But it sounds like super weird and super interesting. Just by virtue of those two names, it's going to be one of the biggest books of the summer. 

Annalee: [00:30:57] Yeah, I also am very curious about it. I also really am looking forward to seeing some kind of event where like Keanu and China are just like shooting the breeze. That'll be a fun, a fun conversation, I suspect.

[00:31:11] So another book I think a bunch of us are really excited about is Robin Sloan's new novel, Moonbound. This is kind of a sequel to his big breakout hit, Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore, which is another book of his that I freaking loved. 

[00:31:28] Moonbound is set in the distant future, thousands and thousands of years in the future. To me, just from reading about it, it sounds like it might be a bit like the dying earth trope.

[00:31:43] So the dying earth trope comes out of a novel from the 1950s by Jack Vance, which is about a really ancient earth where magic and technology have kind of merged together. And that's kind of the feeling I get from Moonbound, is that it's going to be a quest story, but it's also going to have wizards and dragons. But it also has technology because this is Robin Sloan. And I don't think he's capable of writing anything that doesn't have a quirky AI character in some form or another. Or quirky characters who are making AI. So it's a kind of a futuristic, magical world with an AI. And I am just so there. 

[00:32:22] I love Robin's writing so much. He has just a beautiful way with words. He's very tender with his characters. And I just trust him to take me on a magical story that just gets completely weird. 

Charlie Jane: [00:32:36] Yeah, I'm super excited for that book as well. One book actually that comes around the same time is the Robin Sloan book that I'm super pumped for is The Stardust Grail by Yume Kitasei. Yume Kitasei is the author of one of my favorite books from last year, The Deep Sky, which was a murder mystery set on like a deep space vessel. And it knocked my socks off. So I'm super excited for The Stardust Grail. 

[00:33:00] It's about an art thief who basically returns stolen artifacts to alien civilizations. Like when colonizers take artifacts away from an alien civilization, she brings it back to them.

Annalee: [00:33:12] So cool. 

Charlie Jane: [00:33:13] But then someone comes to her and is like, you have to find this lost artifact that'll help save an alien species from going extinct. But nobody knows where to find it. Nobody's seen it for hundreds of years. And other people are looking for it. So it's like a hunt for this lost alien artifact. So it's like it's got everything. It sounds like total catnip. And again, Yume Kitasei's first book was just like utterly brilliant and amazing. So I'm here for whatever. 

Annalee: [00:33:38] I love bringing together the idea of searching for lost alien artifacts with questions about repatriation. I've never seen anyone consider that angle of examining ancient alien artifacts. But of course, it's kind of important. So good job. I'm excited. 

[00:33:54] Another book I'm really looking forward to is Glass Houses by Madeline Ashby. I've read a little bit of it as well. And, you know, kind of like Victor Manibo, she's playing in the same sandbox as Knives Out or Glass Onion: poking fun at the ultra wealthy technocratic class and bringing kind of a murder mystery into it. 

[00:34:18] This is a story where the staff of a startup is abandoned basically on an island with this billionaire's fancy house. And they're trying to figure out what's happened. And at the same time, because it's Madeline Ashby and she loves psychological thrillers, a lot of it is about this HR manager trying to keep everybody on an even keel and not kind of just losing it. She's trying to kind of psychologize them and use like industrial psychology techniques to like keep them in line. 

[00:34:56] And it kind of reminded me a little bit of Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer, the book, because that also has this character who is trying to be the psychologist for a group of people in a situation that's insane. Everybody is kind of, by virtue of the situation, definitely going to start having mental health problems. So it's like, who's the insane person? And like, what's actually going on? And like, we're exploring this strange world. 

[00:35:25] So I love all of that. And of course, Madeline Ashby is like great on anything to do with the tech industry. She has her finger on the pulse. I mean, she is a futurist and she consults with companies. And so she really understands the industrial psychology of a startup. And, of course, she has like a very wicked sense of humor. So this is going to be a good one. 

Charlie Jane: [00:35:45] Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Madeline Ashby's writing. I loved VN. And I loved Company Town. So I'm super here for Glass Houses. 

Annalee: [00:35:55] It has a lot of vibes of Company Town, which was a fantastic book. 

Charlie Jane: [00:35:59] So there's a book I've been waiting for literally as long as I can remember. And it's called Black Heart Man by Nalo Hopkinson. It's Nalo's first novel in a very long time. And actually, I have been hearing about Black Heart Man for a really long time. If you Google Black Heart Man right now, Google will tell you that it came out in 2010, which is not true. It did not come out in 2010. It's coming out this summer. 

Annalee: [00:36:23] Wow. 

Charlie Jane: [00:36:25] You know, score one for Google, I guess. But I think it is a book that has been anticipated for a long time and might have been placed on some coming soon lists as far back as 2010. Like, sometimes Goodreads gets optimistic. If you go on Goodreads, it'll tell you that the sixth book of George RR Martin’s Game of Thrones series is coming out in the next year, which sadly is not true. 

[00:36:46] But we've all been waiting for Black Heart Man for a really long time. It's finally here. I have a review copy, though I haven't read it yet. And basically, it's about a young griot, which is a kind of storyteller, historian, musician, performer, who is polyamorous and is studying to become like a professional griot. But then it turns out that some invading conqueror - some colonizers who were frozen in tar a long time ago by witches - are starting to come back to life and they're getting ready to colonize and attack the griot's home. And meanwhile, there's like a demon. 

Annalee: [00:37:25] Wait, are they colonizers from like space or from another dimension? 

Charlie Jane: [00:37:30] Again, I haven't read it yet. But judging from the plot description online, it sounds like it's a secondary world, but it's a magical island... But it sounds very much based on Caribbean history. And I think that these colonizers are probably supposed to be French or French or Spanish, I don't know, or English, but they're European colonizers, basically, who a long time ago were frozen in tar by like a sorcerer or a group of witches. 

Annalee: [00:37:56] As they should have been. 

Charlie Jane: [00:37:57] Yeah. Now the demons brought them back to life and they're getting ready to attack. And so, yeah, I'm just honestly, I couldn't be more excited for this book. So lightning round. Let's just like half a sentence each. Let's just go through a few more books that we're excited. Annalee, go. 

Annalee: [00:38:10] Okay, I'm really excited about Aliette de Bodard’s forthcoming Navigational Entanglements. They always deliver amazing space opera and incredible romance. Give it to me now. 

Charlie Jane: [00:38:25] Yeah, I'm super excited about Rake's Fall by Vajra Chandrasekera, who scored a huge like, you know, success last year. And this book is about two men who are in love across generations and they keep being reincarnated and coming together again. Super excited to read that one soon. Okay, one more. 

Annalee: [00:38:43] Obviously, James S.A. Corey's new book, The Mercy of Gods. I mean, you know, I would pretty much be excited about anything that they did. And so, yeah, I'm ready for that one too. 

Charlie Jane: [00:38:53] Yeah. Okay, great. We're gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, we're gonna talk about what's ailing Hollywood. 

[00:38:59] OOAC session break music, a quick little synth bwoop bwoo.

Charlie Jane: [00:39:03] So let’s talk about Hollywood. Recently, the organization GLAAD put out a report saying that 36% of LGBTQIA characters on TV would not be returning next season due to their shows being canceled or those characters being written out. And they found an overall steep drop in queer representation on television. Annalee, I'm gonna send you a quote from the press release they put out. 

Annalee: [00:39:28] All right, I'm gonna read from it right now. ‘There are 468 LGBTQ characters counted by GLAAD's methodology, a decrease of 128 characters, which is 22%, from the 596 counted in the previous study. Of the 468 LGBTQ characters counted this year, 170, or 36%, will not return next year.’

Charlie Jane: [00:39:54] Yeah, and basically, they talk about the fact that shows like Our Flag Means Death and A League of Their Own have been canceled. And, you know, there aren't new shows coming along to replace that. I'm still mourning the show Pose. There's just a lot less queerness on TV right now than there was, like, even a year or two ago.

[00:40:12] I couldn't find a similar report for, like, BIPOC characters on television, but I'm willing to bet that you'll see something similar happening there, especially with, like, shows that kind of really feature and foreground BIPOC characters. 

Annalee: [00:40:24] Mm-hmm. 

Charlie Jane: [00:40:26] So, Annalee, I'm gonna send you another report, this time from a recent article in Variety.

Annalee: [00:40:31] “There’s less things being made,'” said Justin Halpern, a WGA board member and co-showrunner of ABC’s “Abbott Elementary.” “If you have been able to secure employment as a writer during this time of contraction, you are making a living wage. But the problem is, there’s not a lot being made right now.”

Charlie Jane: [00:40:48] Yeah, so, to bring those two things together, there's two trends happening right now as peak TV comes to an end. First of all, Hollywood studios are slamming on the brakes, and a lot less stuff is being green lit right now, because, honestly, they overspent on content before. They were just throwing money at everything that they could see. Everybody was trying to be the next Netflix and grow their streaming services really quickly, and then Wall Street turned around and said, we don't care about growth in subscribers anymore. We just want quarterly profits. And that was, like, record scratch. Uh-oh. 

[00:41:21] A recent Reuters article referred to this as the great contraction. And at the same time, as less stuff is being made and less stuff is being approved, you're just seeing less representation on TV across the board, because everybody just wants to go for the safe thing, the safe bet. There's a lot more, like, spinoffs of existing cop shows and firefighter shows and hospital shows.

Annalee: [00:41:42] Yeah, I mean, as we were talking about with summer television, like, two major shows are spinoffs of previous shows, and neither of those was particularly gay, or in any way pushing the envelope in terms of representation. 

Charlie Jane: [00:41:57] Yeah, I guess Orphan Black was kind of gay, right?

Annalee: [00:42:00] I mean, Orphan Black - the show - had a couple of clones who... One clone specifically was gay. But I don’t know about the spinoff, and certainly the show itself was not kind of coded as being an ambiently queer show. It was certainly ambiently feminist, and obviously, you know, women were being centered in a way that was really awesome. So I don't want to, like, shit on that, but I'm just saying it's not a particularly queer show. 

[00:42:30] So this is one of the things that I think is often really perplexing for audiences who don't want to dig into how the sausage is made. It kind of feels like, wait, we have lots of TV, and suddenly we have none. And, you know, oh, okay, I guess that's just like, you know, how the tides are, or like, this is some kind of weather phenomenon. But it's actually specifically, like, about the industry and labor and about who's putting money into making this stuff. And I think I'm really glad that you're pointing this out, because people should remember that the reason why we don't have, for example, really good queer representation coming up is because people specifically don't want to put money into it. These are choices that are being made. It's not like there was some, like, democratic vote or there's some rational idea, you know, because this is all irrational. It's all speculative money. 

[00:43:25] You know, you put money into a show or a movie or even a book based on what you think will happen. And as you said, like, people just retreat into the most conservative patterns when they feel financially threatened instead of saying, like, but wait, maybe we should try to meet the moment and, like, appeal to audiences that, you know, want something that's more diverse or something that just feels different. 

Charlie Jane: [00:43:53] Yeah, I mean, I do think you don't get to vote on what gets green lit. The way you get to vote is by supporting things when they do come along. And so, you know, you have to support shows like Pose or like We Are Lady Parts or like Extraordinary or Our Flag Means Death. When they come along, you have to put everything you have behind them and watch them on the service so that the service knows that you're watching it and so that they can see those viewing numbers. 

[00:44:18] I think that that is really the bottom line is the things that audiences come out for. And there's like this longstanding thing where, like, people will say, oh, I really want more representation in my entertainment. And then they will turn around and watch, you know, the latest like cop show where it's just like white guys shooting everybody. It doesn't matter what you say, you support. It matters what you actually do support. 

[00:44:38] But I do think that also, yeah, there's this contraction and at the same time as belts are being metaphorically tightened. You're also seeing this hugely organized, which I think comes back to your book in a lot of ways, Annalee, this hugely organized conservative backlash against any kind of representation in TV. These people will basically create oftentimes kind of an astroturf movement of like protest against anything that they see as including people who they don't think should be represented on TV at all or in movies. And so, you know, it's easier to just give in and just be like, yeah, we're just going to not go there because it's not worth it. 

Annalee: [00:45:17] Yeah. And I even would add that I think the question around money or like, say, putting your money where your mouth is, like you were saying, like, obviously, of course, we should we should show up for these shows and movies. But at the same time, like, I mean, you hear rhetoric like, oh, well, it's true that the biggest movie of last summer was a feminist film that centered women and you hear like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel were huge. And then you don't get studios saying like, oh, well, obviously we should be making more stuff that like centers people who are women or centers people who are queer. 

[00:45:54] Instead, they're like, oh, well, yeah, that happened. But like, let's go back to making, you know, yet another Batman vs. Superman disaster. And I really feel like it isn't even a response to audiences at this point. I think you're right that it's a response to special interest groups like Moms for Liberty, for example, that are saying like, we just want our entertainment to be as inoffensive to arch conservatives as possible, which means we only want to see another Game of Thrones with white people just murdering each other. 

Charlie Jane: [00:46:33] Yeah, basically. 

Annalee: [00:46:34] And maybe some rape in there. 

Charlie Jane: [00:46:35] You're right a hundred percent that like people draw the wrong lessons from things sometimes. Like you have a movie like Barbie that's like huge and kind of breaks the universe. And the reaction to that is like, oh, I guess movies based on toys are big. So we're going to make a Monopoly movie. We're going to make like a Hungry, Hungry Hippos movie. We're going to make. And it's like Barbie was not a huge movie because people were like ‘toys’. That's not how any of this works. It was a huge movie because of Margot Robbie and Greta Gerwig. And because people liked the imagery and the message and the vibe of it, you know, make more things with that vibe and those feels. 

[00:47:10] Yeah. But I think there is this sort of niche jerk thing of like, it's always a recursion to the mean. And, you know, this has been going on for decades. You'll have, you know, going back to the 90s, there were situations where like Blade was a huge movie. Titanic was obviously a huge movie that was like aimed at women. 

Annalee: [00:47:27] Thelma and Louise. 

Charlie Jane: [00:47:28] Yeah. Thelma and Louise. And studios just kind of resolutely refused to learn the lessons. And especially like, again, once they're cutting back and once everything is being kind of dialed back, the first thing to go is anything that's inclusive or diverse. So I think your point is well taken that, you know, even if audiences do show up to support something like there was so much love and support for Our Flag Means Death. 

[00:47:52] One of the things that's frustrating, of course, is that we can't know how well it did because they never released numbers like they won't. There's no numbers to know how many people watched Our Flag Means Death, which is another thing that's frustrating. We used to have ratings. 

Annalee: [00:48:04] Yeah. In fact, you and I were just talking the other day about how the showrunner of Apple's series Dickinson - which was another kind of feminist history story. I would say in the same kind of ballpark as Barbie in a way, like taking a feminist icon or taking a women's icon and showing the feminist story around it. And it was the biggest show on Apple and the showrunner had no idea. 

[00:48:30] Like even Apple hadn't even told her that it was their biggest show. And it's like this lack of transparency. I mean, not that, you know, entertainment industry should be run like a democracy. I understand that it's a business, but like it just feels anti-democratic to be like, oh, we're going to hide the things that people actually really like and we're not going to follow up on them or even note that they're popular. You know, and so you're left kind of wondering, like, is The Morning Show the thing that's really big on Apple? Like what's going on? You know, we don't even know. 

Charlie Jane: [00:49:06] I forgot about that article until you brought it up, but it's really true. 

Annalee: [00:49:09] To me, that is just freaking shocking, but is so believable. Like, I mean, I think you and I have both worked in places where, you know, the truly popular stuff was kind of hidden away. Like you just never knew how well things were doing because the numbers are easy to game and easy to hide. 

[00:49:27] And of course, that's part of the problem, too, is what do you count as a view when you're talking about streaming? Because with box office, you can say, well, we sold a ticket. And with streaming, you know, I've heard all kinds of wacky stories about how like Netflix counts a view, you know, like how much of a show do you have to watch before you've watched the show? Is it five minutes? Is it 10 minutes? Do you have to go all the way to the end of the show? Do you have to watch the whole series? 

Charlie Jane: [00:49:56] I feel like Netflix keeps changing the metrics around and, you know, they can do that if they want. But it's yeah, it's confusing. 

Annalee: [00:50:04] But it's like you get a show on Netflix like Shadow and Bone, which was freaking huge and like broke the Internet. Everybody was talking about it. I loved it. And then it was just like, oh, poof. I don't know. 

Charlie Jane: [00:50:14] It is really weird. And like, hey, I do feel like there's a lot of shows that came out during that like peak era. I guess there was like a decade that kind of ended in 2022, 2023 where like TV was just getting more and more prolific. There's a ton of shows that came out during that time that either were popular and their popularity was not recognized officially, or they kind of slipped through the cracks in a lot of cases. 

[00:50:39] And there's so many shows out there, so many queer shows, so many black shows. Really inventive, interesting shows. Like I was looking at last year's Summer Entertainment Guide and you and I were like talking endlessly about the show I'm a Virgo by Boots Riley. And you know who's talking about I'm a Virgo now? Unfortunately, nobody. I feel like it came out and just there was like one week where it got some attention and then it was like poof. And it was such a great show. 

[00:51:03] I feel like, you know, what I'm doing lately is actually looking through lists of like the best, the best queer TV shows, the best black TV shows over the last 10 years and looking for hidden gems, because I think that's what we're going to be doing for the foreseeable future is looking back through this treasure trove of television and some movies also that were made during this golden age. And that, you know, we didn't get to see the first time. And in some cases, they've been taken off streaming. You won't be able to find them as easily, but sometimes you can get them on VOD for a few bucks or sometimes you can get them on DVD. But there's so many great TV shows out there that, you know, didn't get the love they deserve and that you can head down to watch now in many cases. 

Annalee: [00:51:46] Well, I would recommend as people are staring out into the abyss of summer, go back and check out I'm a Virgo, because it actually it is about youth protest and it feels extremely relevant right now in the moment where we're watching police destroying all of these student protests over Palestine across the country. And all these horrifying images we're seeing like Boots Riley saw that coming, you know? 

Charlie Jane: [00:52:13] Yes, he did. 

Annalee: [00:52:14] It's a really great satirical dark look at how that happens. So yeah, if you're if you're sitting in an encampment or have friends that have been out there, like this is going to be a good thing to fill your brain with.

Charlie Jane: [00:52:27] Yeah. And I'm just going to conclude by saying that I think that the current kind of retraction or retrenching the current kind of like... 

Annalee: [00:52:34] Retrenching? 

Charlie Jane: [00:52:37] I don't know. The current... 

Annalee: [00:52:38] Retrenchment plus retraction. 

Charlie Jane: [00:52:40] The current shrinkage of television and actually movies at the same time. It's not going to last forever. I think that, you know, what's really going to have to happen is a lot of these companies are going to have to find new revenue models because people are like, oh, no, we shouldn't have given up on cable TV. But like, no, I don't want cable TV anymore. I didn't. That was not a good solution. Fuck cable TV. But at the same time, I'm just like, I had that big box in my place. I don't even want to own a TV set. I don't want to deal with that. Like owning a TV set feels very barbaric. 

Annalee: [00:53:15] I finally gave my set top box back to like Verizon or whatever after they sent me angry letters for like, I'd say like... 

Charlie Jane: [00:53:22] Deliberation. 

Annalee: [00:53:23] Like here, have it now. 

Charlie Jane: [00:53:24] Deliberation. So yeah, I think they're going to have to find a new revenue model. I think it's going to take some time to figure out what that new revenue model is. And I also think that at some point Hollywood is going to look around and be like, Apple TV is not competing with Netflix. Max is not competing with Paramount Plus. We're all competing with like YouTube and TikTok, especially for younger viewers. Obviously TikTok is TBD. Will we still have TikTok in a year? We'll see. But they're competing with like these short form video entities. 

Annalee: [00:53:54] Reels and YouTube shorts and things like that. Yeah. 

Charlie Jane: [00:53:57] Yeah. Maybe Snapchat will make it come back. I have no idea. Fuck. 

Annalee: [00:54:00] You know, a lot of my students are obsessed with Snapchat, which I found to be completely confusing. But yeah, it's still out there. It's just really crappy now. 

Charlie Jane: [00:54:08] That's their motto. Snapchat: we still exist. 

Annalee: [00:54:11] We still exist a little bit crappier. 

Charlie Jane: [00:54:13] Yep. Well, Hollywood studios are going to have to look and see like this is who we're competing with. And we're not going to get there by like making the same TV and movies that we made for your grandpa. You know, back in the 1970s, we're going to have to like, we're going to have to change it up. And you know, at some point, I think a new generation of decision makers is going to be like, we're going to get the youth viewers back by, you know, by spicing things up a bit. 

Annalee: [00:54:40] All right. Thank you so much for listening. To our predictions for summer. Some of them happy, some of them sad. Remember, you can always find us on Mastodon, Patreon and Instagram. Thank you so much to our incredible luminous producer and engineer, Naya Harmon. Thanks to Chris Palmer and Katya Lopez Nichols for the music. And if you're a patron, we'll see you on Discord. Otherwise, we will talk to you later. Bye.

Charlie Jane: [00:55:07] Bye.

[00:55:08] [OOAC theme plays. Science fictiony synth noises over an energetic, jazzy drum line.]